＠National Museum of Ethnology
Moderator and Supervisor: Bonpei Calcutta

Bonpei Calcutta

How did you become beat maker? You said that first of all you are into big room EDM or something like that?

Karan Kanchan

Yes. For me, I do not come from a musical background. Anyone in my family does not do music as such. And in India, the kids are always expected to be engineers or doctors. So, it is very difficult to convince your parents when you are trying to choose a field like this. For me, honestly, I did not grow up on a lot of music. I only listened to music which my parents used to play at house.

My grandmother was a singer, but she was not a professional singer. Everyone in my family liked music, but no one pursued music. And for me, actually it was an accident because I used to spend a lot of my time on YouTube. And I was lucky that I had internet access at an early age. My father is a computer science guy. So we had internet at an early age at my house. So I used to spend a lot of time on YouTube. And one of those days, I randomly came across this YouTube recommendation of a song. And that one-second decision of clicking on that song is why I ended up becoming a musician. That song was actually one of the EDM songs at that time. And that was a song by Tiesto.

I was very confused when I was listening to the song. I was like, how are these sounds being made? Because as a normal school going kid, I only knew about instruments like piano, guitar, drums. But when I listened to the electronic dance music, I was curious about how these synth sounds are being made and what are these sounds and how are they being created? I really got curious. I started looking for answers online, like how do you make a song like this or stuff like that.

This was back in 2012-2013. At that time, there was not a lot of tutorials on YouTube either. I also did not know what are the terminologies of things, like what is a software, what is automation, or what is anything, mixing or compression, anything. I did not know anything about it. So it was just out of curiosity, and I just started asking questions. I am still asking questions. That is how I got introduced to making music.

I was also very much interested into the DJing side of things. That is how I started into the electronic music space, and then slowly, it shifted to bass music, trap music, and then eventually hip-hop.

Bonpei Calcutta

We would like to play his song.

DIVINE “Bonfire feat. Russ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQy5qaCJnGQ

Bonpei Calcutta

Would you introduce the song?

Karan Kanchan

Yes, this song I made with this rapper called Divine. He is a very big rapper in India right now. He is one of the main guys who pioneered the Indian hip-hop scene, representing Hindi language in rap. Even the movie, Gully Boy, which played a very big role in developing the whole hip-hop scene in India, is loosely based on his life story. This is from his third album. I produced four songs on this album, and this is one of the songs which also features Russ who is an international artist.

Bonpei Calcutta

You said that you started making beats in 2013?

Karan Kanchan

13, yeah.

Bonpei Calcutta

I think you are the first generation of independent beat maker of India.

Karan Kanchan

I think so maybe second. Because I think so the first ones to do it were Nucleya, Bandish Projekt. Those guys were the starting guys. We come under the second generation of electronic music producers in India. It is still very new because, again, in India, our culture is very limited. We are not allowed to explore all this stuff until and unless it is classical, like classical music only or something like that, which is what our families usually push us to do. But trying out something which is more Western is still very foreign to us.

But now a lot of young people, because of internet, of course, are able to try out these things. And there is so much information available right now so that anyone can make music right now. So I think it is very easy. Anyone can download a software, and anyone can use loops and make music now.

So eventually now it has become about how good are you at putting sounds together and sound selection. And it is more like a taste making thing. It is like how good your taste is. It is not about how you can produce music. It is about how good your taste is because everything is available so easily. And anyone can make music, so you have to be very specific with your taste, and you have to learn about world music and how to combine two different styles maybe together to maybe create something new.

Bonpei Calcutta

So you mean the internet played a very big role in Indian music scene?

Karan Kanchan

Definitely. I do not know how many people know, but in India, there is this one telecom provider called Jio which is run by India's one of the richest guys. He came in and he disrupted the entire telecom industry basically. He came in and he provided SIM cards and everything for dirt cheap price, very cheap. And because of those guys, a lot of India, even the rural parts now have internet at very cheap prices.

Because of that, a lot of people were on internet at the same time. And that is why if you see now, there is a lot of growth in Indian YouTubers and even anyone who is making content online. So that Jio coming into the market really played a very important role in increasing audience on the internet in India. And now it is just growing every day. So many people are on the internet right now in India.

A lot of these international brands like Spotify and Apple are also understanding the importance of the audience in India, and that is why Spotify also has now a headquarter in Mumbai and even Apple Music also has a headquarter now in Mumbai.

Everyone knows that India has the crowd, India has the audience. So it is growing. And internet played a big role, of course, because now it is available for cheap and actually almost kind of free in a way. So it is really good out there. Even for independent artists who are making their own music, they can just shoot videos and do everything by themselves, put it on their YouTube channel, and go viral. That is how even Divine got famous. So yeah, internet definitely played a very important role in Indian scene.

Bonpei Calcutta

I think the Indian independent music scene grew up in 2010. Especially maybe around from 2015, it grew really big. So you mean it is because of the internet?

Karan Kanchan

Yes, I think so. Because even the international music to India was available easier now. Before that, back in 2000, there would be all these pirated CDs and all, which would come, and very few people would have it, and they would copy it from one disc to another and spread it out. It was very difficult to find like-minded people around you without the internet.

One of the first things in India to happen was during Orkut, when Orkut was popular. After Myspace, Orkut was popular, there is this rap battle which used to happen in India called Insignia on Orkut. So, a lot of these rappers would find their friends online, and they would rap battle online. And that is how they grew. They made a good community, and then they started doing it on ground.

There is this group of people called B3 in Mumbai. They used to organize all these rap cyphers, and that is how it started, honestly. A lot of these videos are online on YouTube. It is called B3 Cyphers. Literally, you can see some of the old videos where even Divine is standing in the back, and everyone was just coming out there to perform, and everyone was supporting each other. And they knew that that is what they had, like only these many people who understand this kind of music.

And until it got famous after those songs like Mere Gully Mein, which Divine and Naezy did, until before that, it was very segregated in a way. Only a few people understood what they were doing.

So, it was very important for this music to be more commercial and more likeable to the masses so that more people can consume it and understand what these guys are trying to do as rappers. And that happened over the time after like 2015, when people had access to everything, internet and everything, shot their own videos, put it on YouTube. That is how it really started. That is how the Indian hip-hop scene started. From Orkut, online rap battles to on-ground cyphers, and then one of the music videos blowing up on the internet. So that is how the Indian scene actually started.

Bonpei Calcutta

The hip-hop scene was born in Orkut, you mean?

Karan Kanchan

Not really, but yes.

Bonpei Calcutta

Anyway, I think at that time, hip-hop was not so popular in India.

Karan Kanchan

No. Not at all.

Bonpei Calcutta

There were hip-hop fans all over India maybe, but they connected through Orkut.

Karan Kanchan

Yes.

Bonpei Calcutta

They did rap battles in Orkut. You mean rap battle is text only?

Karan Kanchan

Back then, yes.

Bonpei Calcutta

I see.

Karan Kanchan

After that, they started doing it online. So if you see B3 on YouTube, those are live rap battles.

Bonpei Calcutta

Which language?

Karan Kanchan

Hindi. Actually, in the start, it was very much English. Everyone was doing English because that is what they learned from seeing at the West. Everyone was a big fan of 50 Cent. In India, 50 Cent's music was really a big thing, even Sean Paul, and all these sounds were very – a lot of Indian people related to it. What happened after that is people started imitating. They tried to copy, so they were doing in English. Eventually, people had confidence to do it in their own language, and that resulted in more people understanding it. People who do not listen to hip-hop music or international music ended up understanding what these guys are saying because they are rapping in the same language. And that is how it started.

Bonpei Calcutta

Then, after you became a beat maker, you innovated the music genre called J-trap. So how did you find Japanese music, and why did you decide to mix it?

Karan Kanchan

Basically, as I told you, I was making a lot of dance music, EDM music before. And it was still 2015. 2015 is when I attended my first concert. I was trying to make music very EDM and dance festival music kind of stuff before that. When I went to the concert, and this was my first concert in my life ever, and I went to the concert, I saw the entire lineup which had Major Lazer, Gorgon City, Big Gigantic, Giraffage. All of these artists were performing, and I went there, and all of them had a very different sound, all of them had character. And that is what I understood.

On my train ride back home after that show, I was thinking to myself, like, if I was on that stage, what would people think of me as? Like, what is my character, and what is my sound?

So, in the year 2016, I took a break. I did not release any music, but I tried different genres and try to find what is my sound. I used to spend every week trying out new – I would go on YouTube and learn how to make this kind of music, how to make lo-fi, how to make future bass. I used to learn as many sounds as possible. I was trying to find out what is that clicks with me. And eventually, towards the end of 2016 is when I got introduced to a lot of Japanese classical music through Yoshida Brothers and Wagakki Band. And I was like, oh, this sounds really cool. And I was also experimenting a lot with sound design and bass music at that time. So, I thought, let us try to combine these.

I did one song, and I thought it was sounding different from what all my friends and all the people I know were doing. And I thought, okay, let us utilize this and let us think about making it as a sound for myself, as an identity for myself. I spent a lot of time thinking about it and also visually how do I want to brand my artist profile. Because I am a journalism and mass communication graduate, and we have this subject called visual communication. In that, we were taught how to give a brand a character and stuff like that.

So, I was really interested in that aspect of branding part and also everything to do with the artist's image. So, I spent a lot of time in brainstorming and putting that together. I would not say that I am the first one to do it. I know a lot of people who have done this before. But I wanted to explore it more than just one song. So, people usually do it like, okay, we will do one song which is inspired by Japanese classical sound and maybe like bass music. But I wanted to explore that even more further. Like, how does it go? Like, if I wanted to follow up this with another track, how will I do?

So, yeah, that is how I tried to put it together. Literally, I sampled the shamisen sound from one of those YouTube shamisen videos, and I sampled that and tried to play it on my sampler. Yeah, that is how I started making J-Trap for a bit.

Bonpei Calcutta

J-Trap was very new to me. Because lo-fi hip-hop was already related with Japanese culture, animation and something like that.

Karan Kanchan

Yes.

Bonpei Calcutta

But nobody tried to mix the bass music or trap music with Japanese culture.

Karan Kanchan

Actually, there are some artists which I also listen to. There is this artist called Iso:R. He has this song called Kimura, if I am not wrong. It is a very heavy song which also features a lot of Japanese old instruments. And that was one of my inspirations also. So, yeah, very few people are doing it but it is out there.

Bonpei Calcutta

What is the name?

Karan Kanchan

Iso:R. The song name is Kimura.

Bonpei Calcutta

Kimura?

Karan Kanchan

Yeah.

Bonpei Calcutta

Black Belt. Japanese martial arts.

Karan Kanchan ft.VinDon “Black Belt”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcVjxDjlMeo

Bonpei Calcutta

I am really surprised that you showed your playlist of Japanese music.

Karan Kanchan

Yeah.

Bonpei Calcutta

There are so many songs that I do not know. Could you tell us who is your favorite Japanese musician?

Karan Kanchan

I think so a lot of them, actually. I listen to music which is totally opposite of the music I make. I make hip-hop a lot in India, with a lot of rappers and everyone. But I personally do not listen to hip-hop as much.

I am telling you like I am more of a producer. And I want to become more like a songwriter and a producer who can make music for anyone and all kind of music, not just hip-hop. But hip-hop is something which was growing, and I wanted to learn about it. Luckily, I have been able to work with some of the best artists.

My process mainly as a producer is to get the artist from point A to point B. From the start of the song to the end of the song, in the least steps possible. To make it as easy as possible for the artist to put his vision out there. And that is the kind of service I am providing as a producer in Indian market as of now. That is why I am not branding myself as a hip-hop artist or anything. I am just a producer who wants to produce all kind of stuff.

Honestly, I do not listen to as much hip-hop as I should. I wait for the albums to come out and then I wait which songs get popular. And I listen to the popular songs so that I understand what works for the audience so I can focus on understanding patterns and what works better for the average consumer and maybe use those in ways which I can do it myself.

But about the music which I listen to, it is totally opposite. I listen to a lot of pop music, and I am a big fan of pop music. Even Japanese city pop is something I really like. I guess it is very popular online right now on the internet. I found out about it through YouTube again. Many artists I would suggest like Yoshida Brothers was the first for me for sure. After that, Wagakki Band and Babymetal, Atarashii gakko. Yeah, I like them. Evich is also top for me. Evich is amazing. Maddy Soma is one more rapper which I came across recently.

Bonpei Calcutta

Maddy?

Karan Kanchan

Maddy Soma.

Bonpei Calcutta

Oh yeah.

Karan Kanchan

Yeah, he is really good. Yeah, his Stone [ph]. And I was like, wow, this guy is killing it. There is one more called Candee. I recently met these guys online. All of these are more in the rap, hip-hop space. And then city pop, Mariya Takeuchi, Taeko Ohnuki, Seiko Matsuda-san, all of these artists. So I am big fan of their music. Literally, I listen to that all the time.

Yeah, so that is pretty much a bunch of them. Let me see what else do we have. Anri is also there.

Yushi Yanohara

In India, what kind of software do people use? Do people use hardware also?

Karan Kanchan

For hip-hop, I think so no, mostly everyone is using software. Because it started too late right now. If it was started at the same time when the western hip-hop had started, maybe it would have been a different setup. But now that everyone has a laptop, everyone has a device, everyone has Splice, so people just use software. No one is using any hardware as much. Very few, I would say, people who know how to play keyboard and stuff, they sometimes sample, but mostly hip-hop is all in the box.

Yushi Yanohara

Even no keyboard?

Karan Kanchan

Very few. All of the people I know, mostly – only keyboard is something they use, or else they will get a session guitarist to record guitar loops and then program the drums on the computer.

Yushi Yanohara

How about sampling music?

Karan Kanchan

Actually, in India, it is very difficult to clear Bollywood music samples, and it is very expensive also. But I was lucky, so one of the first Indian hip-hop songs which has a sample cleared was produced by me. That song is called 'Baazigar'. It is from a movie. No, do not play. That is a very popular song, original song as well, and then I sampled it into a drill beat, and that song was pretty viral in India. On Instagram, there were around 2 million reels made on that song, so it was pretty viral.

DIVINE “Baazigar feat. Armani White”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z7tW64jpTM

Now, a lot of people are trying to sample, but legally, making sure it is out there is very difficult. Luckily, we got the first one done.

Darthreider

In Japan, people like those Bollywood soundtracks, the old Indian music, it is kind of funky. Is that kind of a popular sampling?

Karan Kanchan

Yes, all the old Bollywood songs. Old Bollywood production was very rich in arrangement, many layers, many detailed percussions and rhythms. So people really loved the tone of those songs. Indian melodies are also very, like, for an Indian person, any of those old songs are very nostalgic. So if you sample that with a new kind of drums and everything, people love it.

Bonpei Calcutta

In India, before the independent music era, Bollywood was a very, very big industry so it is hard to sample it.

Karan Kanchan

Yeah. Bollywood, actually in India, only now there is an independent scene, because the majority of the market share, I would say almost like 92% of the market share is Bollywood music, and independent music is very small. Even it is divided into many different parts after that. There is regional music, which is music for gods and everything. Those also have a major role. And there is very little percentage left for independent music, because Bollywood is so big. Like how in Japan anime is big, Bollywood is the Indian thing, and everyone from a taxi driver to someone going to a CEO of a big company, they all go to watch the cinema. Everyone relates to it, everyone loves the music, and the Indian musicians who are working for these movie music are geniuses, and the songs are amazing, actually.

I would say, as an Indian person myself, as much as I like Western music and everything, I am a big fan of Bollywood music as well, because it is very – I mean, it is amazing. It is very unique, I think so. I do not find anywhere in the world where movie music is a thing as such as in India. And it is so relatable, the content is so relatable, everyone would just get up and dance to it. If you play it in a club, any Bollywood music, everyone just goes off on a Friday night. So it is amazing, I think so.

Bollywood music is great, but now finally, because people have power in their own hands because of the internet, there is a market for independent music now. And again, the same reason, because of internet, it is possible, or else it would have been very difficult to survive. Because there is so much, so many people in India, almost like the number one populated country right now. The good thing about it is, if you make any kind of music, you will somewhere or somewhat find audience for it. Even if you are making very rare music, which not a lot of people listen to, there is so many audience, you will still find people. But you just have to put yourself out there.

Bonpei Calcutta

You said you would listen to Japanese city pop sometimes, right?

Karan Kanchan

Yes.

Ippei Shimamura

I am just wondering Japanese city pop is not so suitable for hip-hop beat. Have you ever sampled Japanese city pop to Indian hip-hop or not?

Karan Kanchan

No, not yet, but I think so I should. I know Weeknd did it on a song. Weeknd sampled Midnight Pretenders. So I think there is a lot of scope that you can do stuff. But yeah, Hindi vocals would be interesting. Yeah.

Yukio Nakano

Okay. I am just wondering about the copyright issues.

Karan Kanchan

Yes.

Yukio Nakano

So when you compose music, do you find any problems using samples?

Karan Kanchan

As I said, only once we have sampled was Baazigar from the movie. And we got it cleared legally, and it was a long process. It actually took us almost two years to just clear the sample. But it happened eventually. Other than that, I make original music mostly. We do not sample much because it is a headache. But it is worth it. If you know the song is going to be a hit, it is good to take that step and invest in it. And now that song has almost 80 million views all together on Spotify, YouTube, everywhere. So it has done a pretty well job. On Instagram, it is a different game altogether, because 2 million reels, and I do not know how many views on each reel. So it is pretty intense.

Other than that, mostly I make original music, not sample-based music. But I use samples from websites like Splice or Looperman, stuff like that. On that space, there is no copyright issue. But now that it has become so common, always you will find two or three songs using the same sample. So you have to be very careful in selecting or sampling it in a way that it does not sound as original as how it was. And I really love to do that.

I would just download one sample from one pack, and I will download another sample from some other random pack, and I try to mix them together so it becomes something unique. And it becomes a combination which maybe not a lot of people have tried, because it becomes unique in a way, and you do not know. You will have to go to the exact two samples to create that combination. I like to do that a lot to make sure my song is sounding different than the others out there.

Yukio Nakano

I have an impression that basically Yoshida Kyodai, they play Vocaloid music.

Karan Kanchan

The Yoshida Brothers. Yes.

Yukio Nakano

They play Vocaloid music. Do you know Vocaloid?

Karan Kanchan

Vocaloid. Oh, yeah. Vocaloid, I know. It is pretty big, yeah.

Yukio Nakano

How do you think about the Vocaloid music?

Karan Kanchan

It is amazing. I think the technology is amazing. I know Hatsune Miku is about that. In India, I have never seen any concept like that yet. But yeah, I do not think so that would really work in India.

Yukio Nakano

Maybe in Japan now, so Vtuber, Bat Vtuber, it is very developing.

Karan Kanchan

Yeah, but in India, I do not see the scope of it. In India, people like to create heroes. And people like to see, oh, this guy is a hero, this person is a hero. I think India is too away from that as of now. I do not think so it would work well. But I like that music. I like Vocaloid music. It is very interesting.

Yukio Nakano

Other than Japanese music, how do you think of the Korean music and the K-pop?

Karan Kanchan

I have only listened to the Korean music, K-pop music, which they are doing it in English. Not the Korean Korean pop music. I actually prefer J-pop more than K-pop, personally. Because I do not know, like, there is no specific reason. This is like a personal taste, maybe.

But yeah, all the K-pop songs with English lyrics is what I have heard a lot. But not the actual authentic K-pop. I have not been exposed to it much.

Yukio Nakano

How do you think about your culture? Basically, in Japan, people talk about India and heroes, basically they are into Indian films, Indian cuisine, Indian food. Basically, do you watch Indian movies?

Karan Kanchan

Yeah, Indian movies, I watch, yeah, of course. In India, movies are a very big part of Indian people. People love to watch it. I know everyone – since when I have come to Japan, everyone is talking about RRR and Natu Natu. And I was like, I have not watched that movie, by the way. I have not watched it yet. But I am surprised that everyone here knows about it. So, it is pretty surprising.

Ippei Shimamura

Everybody?

Karan Kanchan

Yeah, everyone is talking about it. I am like, wow. And I have not still watched it, though.

Yukio Nakano

How about Rajinikanth?

Karan Kanchan

Rajinikanth, yeah, I am a big fan of him.

Yukio Nakano

He is a Tamil star, the south part of India?

Karan Kanchan

South, yeah.

Yushi Yanohara

I checked the Splice site and you have one sample pack.

Karan Kanchan

Oh, yeah. That is a very old one, actually. Yeah.

Yushi Yanohara

But I could not download it.

Karan Kanchan

Yeah.

Yushi Yanohara

I was thinking if you had the copyright issue or…

Karan Kanchan

No. I will tell you what happened. Basically, I had licensed that sample pack to a company called Acolyte. It was supposed to be a free sample pack. It was not supposed to be on Splice. And I got to know from somewhere else that they have uploaded it on Splice. And I have been not told about it. I have not been informed about it. So, we had to take it down from there. But I will send you the link for sure.

Yushi Yanohara

Yeah. Thank you. I want to ask, like Splice or any other sound pack shop online, is it like a big business in India? Or what kind of business the beat makers join with, yeah?

Karan Kanchan

A lot of people are dependent on BeatStars. People make beats and sell it online on BeatStars. But, again, it is very populated. There are so many people who do it. So, it is very difficult to stand out and make your name on BeatStars. You guys might know how many beats there are on BeatStars. Every day, people are uploading hundreds of beats. And how do you become separate from that, right?

So, in India, a lot of producers are still doing that. But, honestly, the kind of money in Indian hip-hop right now is still less. Only a few producers who are working with some big artists and big labels in India are getting paid well. And also, in India, we are still behind in the concept of giving masters to the producers as well. So, now that is changing slowly. We are kind of fighting for it so that even the producers get master royalties and stuff on the songs. Or else, usually in India, the market has always been in a way that they will buy out the rights. So, they will pay you an advance money and they will just buy everything out of you, and you would not have anything to do with the song. So, that is what one of the biggest labels in India, T-Series, does. They just buy songs in bulk, and they do not pay the artists anything. They pay the artists the advance, not anything after that. If the song gets viral, you are not getting anything out of it. So, now we are fighting for that in the hip-hop space. And a lot of the artists I work with are very supportive. They are giving master shares and publishing shares also. Because a lot of people are educated about the copyright laws in India. So, now we are trying to change that.

Bonpei Calcutta

Thank you very much.